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Silliman's Blog
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<p class='description'><span>A weblog focused on contemporary poetry and poetics.</span></p>
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Showing posts with label <b>Rodney Koeneke</b>. <a href="https://writing.upenn.edu/epc/mirrors/ronsilliman.blogspot.com/">Show all posts</a>
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<div class='status-msg-hidden'>Showing posts with label <b>Rodney Koeneke</b>. <a href="https://writing.upenn.edu/epc/mirrors/ronsilliman.blogspot.com/">Show all posts</a></div>
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<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span style="color: #0d0d0d; font-family: &quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; font-size: 16.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-style-textfill-fill-alpha: 100.0%; mso-style-textfill-fill-color: #0D0D0D; mso-style-textfill-fill-colortransforms: &quot;lumm=95000 lumo=5000&quot;; mso-style-textfill-fill-themecolor: text1; mso-themecolor: text1; mso-themetint: 242;"><a href="http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/2014/02/rodney-koeneke-etruria.html"><span style="color: #0d0d0d; mso-style-textfill-fill-alpha: 100.0%; mso-style-textfill-fill-color: #0D0D0D; mso-style-textfill-fill-colortransforms: &quot;lumm=95000 lumo=5000&quot;; mso-style-textfill-fill-themecolor: text1; mso-themecolor: text1; mso-themetint: 242;">Rodney</span></a>
<a href="http://latenightlibrary.org/poetrys-special-way-of-folding-a-conversation-with-rodney-koeneke/"><span style="color: #0d0d0d; mso-style-textfill-fill-alpha: 100.0%; mso-style-textfill-fill-color: #0D0D0D; mso-style-textfill-fill-colortransforms: &quot;lumm=95000 lumo=5000&quot;; mso-style-textfill-fill-themecolor: text1; mso-themecolor: text1; mso-themetint: 242;">Koeneke</span></a><br />
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@ <a href="http://counterpathpress.org/"><span style="color: #0d0d0d; mso-style-textfill-fill-alpha: 100.0%; mso-style-textfill-fill-color: #0D0D0D; mso-style-textfill-fill-colortransforms: &quot;lumm=95000 lumo=5000&quot;; mso-style-textfill-fill-themecolor: text1; mso-themecolor: text1; mso-themetint: 242;">Counterpath</span></a><br style="mso-special-character: line-break;" />
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May 2014</span></div>
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<a class='timestamp-link' href='https://writing.upenn.edu/epc/mirrors/ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2014/06/14_7.html' rel='bookmark' title='permanent link'><abbr class='published' itemprop='datePublished' title='2014-06-07T00:00:00-04:00'>Saturday, June 07, 2014</abbr></a>
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<h2 class='date-header'><span>Saturday, February 22, 2003</span></h2>

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<st1:personname><span style="font-family: Arial;">Annie Finch</span></st1:personname><span style="font-family: Arial;"> wants to reframe my entire discussion with Rodney
Koeneke. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">&nbsp;</span><span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;">Dear
Ron, <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;">In your response to
Rodney Koeneke you accept quickly, though provisionally, the equation of
spirituality with the unconscious. But consider that that very equation may be
making it more difficult to account for the spirituality evident in much
experimental poetry. Goddess spirituality offers one useful alternative model;
it is immanent and conscious, not transcendent and unconscious. My own essay
"Poetry and the Goddess" explores how the model of immanent
spirituality, as opposed to transcendent spirituality, frees language from the
need to "say the unsaid" and other models that privilege
"transcendent" meanings over actual language. Perhaps the Judeo-Christian
spiritual model being assumed in the discussion with Koeneke is causing as many
problems as the literary model--or more problems, being even more unquestioned
than the literary model.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;">Yours, <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;">Annie<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial;">Finch is certainly right
that Koeneke posed the issue in Judeo-Christian terms, but I&#8217;m not at all sure
that a solution lies in an approach that &#8220;frees language from the need to &#8216;say
the unsaid.&#8217;&#8221; The problem of the apophatic is hardly the exclusive property of
just one tradition: if I recall correctly, Alan Davies invoked the idea though
not the term within a Zen framework in his piece on &#8220;</span><st1:personname><span style="font-family: Arial;">Don</span></st1:personname><span style="font-family: Arial;">&#8217;t Know Mind&#8221; early in the 1970s. Further, from the perspective of
poetry, Viktor Shklovsky&#8217;s expansionist model of the artistic process &#8211; his
concept that art as a collective activity proceeds precisely through incorporating
phenomena previously not acknowledged or not thought to be appropriately
artistic &#8211; privileges the &#8220;unsaid&#8221; as the source of innovation &amp; vitality. Where
would women&#8217;s poetics be today had it not emerged out of the terrain of the
unsaid? <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<h2 class='date-header'><span>Tuesday, February 18, 2003</span></h2>

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<span style="font-family: Arial;">Consider the first ten
sections of <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">Complete Thought </i>by </span><st1:personname><span style="font-family: Arial;">Barrett Watten</span></st1:personname><span style="font-family: Arial;">, first published in 1982, available now in <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">Frame </i>(1971-1990) (Sun &amp; Moon,
1997):<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="mso-tab-count: 1;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span><span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;">I<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;">The world is complete</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;">Books demand limits.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<br /></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"><span style="mso-tab-count: 1;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>II<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;">Things fall down to create drama.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;">The materials are proof.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<br /></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"><span style="mso-tab-count: 1;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>III<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;">Daylight accumulates in photos. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;">Bright hands substitute for sun.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 6.0pt; margin-left: .5in; margin-right: 0in; margin-top: 0in;">
<span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"><span style="mso-tab-count: 1;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>IV<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;">Crumbling supports undermine houses.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;">Connoisseurs locate stress.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<br /></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"><span style="mso-tab-count: 1;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>V<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;">Work breaks down to devices.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;">All features present.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<br /></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"><span style="mso-tab-count: 1;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>VI<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;">Necessary commonplaces form a word.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;">The elements of art are fixed.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<br /></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"><span style="mso-tab-count: 1;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>VII<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;">A mountain cannot be a picture.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;">Rapture stands in for style.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 6.0pt; margin-left: .5in; margin-right: 0in; margin-top: 0in;">
<span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"><span style="mso-tab-count: 1;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>VIII<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;">Worn-out words are invented.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;">We read daylight in books.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<br /></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"><span style="mso-tab-count: 1;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>IX<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;">Construction turns back in on itself.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;">Dogs have to be whipped.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<br /></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"><span style="mso-tab-count: 1;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>X<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;">Eyes open wide to see spots.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;">Explanations are given on command.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial;">The poem continues this
spare, riveting process for a total of 50 sections. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial;">Like all the best works that
I&#8217;ve quoted in the blog that are already 20 or more years old &#8211; Grenier&#8217;s <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">Sentences, </i>Faville&#8217;s &#8220;Aubade,&#8221; Stanley&#8217;s
&#8220;Pompeii&#8221; &#8211; &#8220;Complete Thought&#8221; is as stunning today as it was when it was first
published. For me, reading Watten is a good amount like listening to early Bob Dylan:
an experience so powerful that I have to ration it judiciously. Otherwise I&#8217;m
apt to find myself sounding like a poor imitation days, if not weeks, later.
&#8220;Complete Thought&#8221; is a poem very close to the center of my own experience of
what it means to be a poet. I can&#8217;t imagine reading it as anything less than a
life-changing event. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial;">Thinking specifically of <a href="http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/mirrors/ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2003_02_01_ronsilliman_archive.html%2389185804">Rodney
Koeneke&#8217;s questions</a> Sunday concerning language poetry, the unconscious
&amp; the spiritual, &#8220;Complete Thought&#8221; strikes me as a text aimed almost
directly at the unconscious. At one level, Watten is the first poet since
Spicer to really <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">get</i> the power of
overdetermination &amp; render it not merely palpable, but unmistakable in a
text. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial;">Part of this is accomplished
through a classic deployment of new sentences &#8211; the image schemas enveloping
each first sentence is sufficiently remote from any schema surrounding the
second sentence in its pair that the structurally implicit &#8220;causal&#8221; relation
between them is felt for what it <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">déjà
toujours </i>is: the reader&#8217;s superimposition, a form of violence acted on the
text by the reading process itself. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial;">By themselves, the sentences
of &#8220;Complete Thought&#8221; are unexceptional &#8211; so much so that they stand out with a
sheen one associates with neomodern design, a functionalism so bare it almost
hurts, casting every individual element into a high-contrast relief. An
important part of Watten&#8217;s genius here lies in the recognition that the form of
the direct sentence, by itself, carries its own psychic &amp; socio-political
baggage. The aggressiveness of the piece, indeed its emotional tone, is
governed precisely by our experience of syntax as force &#8211; in every sense of that
word. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial;">Koeneke links language
poetry to mysticism through apophasis, a term with both rhetorical &amp;
theological meanings. From the Greek for &#8220;to speak&#8221; (<span class="SpellE"><i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">phasis</i></span>) &#8220;away&#8221; (<i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">apo</i>), the term is a primary device of
critical negation &#8211; the standard rhetorical example is a single sentence that
asserts negativity while claiming not to speak of it, as in &#8220;I won&#8217;t discuss
George W&#8217;s incompetence.&#8221; The little I know of negative theology* suggests that
apophasis proposes the idea that God is &#8220;absence,&#8221; &#8220;difference&#8221; or &#8220;otherness.&#8221;
Framed as apophatic discourse, it becomes evident that the privileged moment in
the new sentence lies between the period of one sentence and the capital letter
that initiates the next &#8211; the same terrain rendered so vividly in &#8220;Complete Thought.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial;">Koeneke&#8217;s paragraph on the
apophatic is worth repeating:<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<tt><span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt;">The apophatic tradition in mysticism, however -
approaching the divine by what it's not - shares a lot of (perhaps superficial)
parallels with Language writing. The subject, or ego, comes into question as an
external construct; language is inadequate to apprehend reality; ideas are an
arm of the secular, external social institutions that seek to limit freedom. I
could imagine an apophatic spiritual poetry that looked very much like Language
writing, one that didn't raid the poetics for nifty effects, but took a similar
orientation towards writing out of a shared sense of what's at stake with
words. I wonder if Spicer was one of them.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial;">It would be possible to pick
apart each of these sentences, phrase by phrase: the idea that &#8220;language is
inadequate to apprehend reality&#8221; is a considerable leap, given the diversity of
writing that gets typed as langpo**. But it seems evident that what Koeneke
most usefully is after is the link here between Spicer&#8217;s use of
overdetermination in his writing and that gap between sentences at the heart of
langpo. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial;">Does this make </span><st1:personname><span style="font-family: Arial;">Barrett Watten</span></st1:personname><span style="font-family: Arial;"> a spiritual writer? <span class="GramE">Only if he
wants to be.</span> Rather, I think the question more important to pose here is
<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">what
really occurs in that gap between sentences</i></b> that a generation of
writers would begin to explore this all-but-invisible terrain in such
significant numbers. To frame a response in terms of psychology, spirituality
or even linguistics is to freeze the discussion into the constraints of an
already existing discipline. Yet it is exactly the inability of any inherited
intellectual or social tradition to &#8211; and I&#8217;m choosing my words deliberately
here &#8211; &#8220;nail down&#8221; this space that has given it just such potency for our time.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial;">So in this sense I would
agree with one aspect of Koeneke&#8217;s initial argument &#8211; that there are a lot of
relatively younger writers today who adopt some of the surface features of
langpo in order to rehabilitate it back into an already canned psychology of
the person, say the way Carol <span class="SpellE">Maso&#8217;s</span> <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;"><a href="http://www.centerforbookculture.org/dalkey/backlist/maso.html"><span class="SpellE">Ava</span></a></i> tames Beckett when what we really need is a
writing that explodes &amp; explores that which is most wild there. Watten, in
contrast, is not a poet of compromise. Which is precisely a mark of his
greatness. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10.0pt;">* Cf. <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;"><a href="http://books.cambridge.org/0521817188.htm">Silence and the Word</a>, </i>edited
by Oliver Davies &amp; Denys Turner, or Michael Sells&#8217; <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;"><a href="http://www.press.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/hfs.cgi/00/12484.ctl">Mystical
Languages of Unsaying</a>.<o:p></o:p></i></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10.0pt;">**
Koeneke&#8217;s reductive tendency to collapse language writing to a single (if
transpersonal) agency &#8211; as in &#8220;can Language writing address X&#8221; type statements
&#8211; I&#8217;ve simply ignored here in order to chase more valuable avenues of response.
My usual reply to Can-language-poetry-address type questions is &#8220;only if it has
an envelope and some stamps.&#8221; <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<h2 class='date-header'><span>Monday, February 17, 2003</span></h2>

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<span style="font-family: Arial;">Rodney Koeneke asked a
number of pointed &amp; relatively loaded questions yesterday predicated on one
key presumption &#8211; that there is a critical &amp; deep correlation between the
unconscious &amp; what Koeneke calls the spiritual. That&#8217;s a presumption I&#8217;m
willing to grant, at least for the sake of a response today, given my own sense
that God, a term Koeneke employs complete with capital G, is a word humans
invented to identify something they can apprehend but never articulate. By
definition, then, the unconscious &amp; the divine are realms that can never be
accessed directly, even if/as they act profoundly on all aspects of our lives. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial;">Beyond this concurrence,
however, there are many specific points in Koeneke&#8217;s line of questioning that
need to be teased out further. Before I proceed, I want to note first that the
gist of his thinking has important parallels with the somewhat more contentious
editorials that appeared a decade or so ago in <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">Apex of the M.</i> I appreciate Koeneke&#8217;s more straightforward
approach, frankly, since I think it enables the possibility of a response. On
the other hand, it&#8217;s also possible that I might be more able to reply today
precisely because I&#8217;ve had a decade to mull over what lay behind the
cattle-prod effect of the <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">Apex </i>gang. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial;">Also before I proceed, I
want to set aside what strikes me as the banal, &amp; ultimately evasive, way
to respond, which would be to note that many of the individuals associated with
language poetry are quite active in various spiritual practices, from Fanny
Howe&#8217;s very active work with exactly the aspects of Gnostic tradition that
Koeneke appears to be most interested in*, to some poets such as Tom Mandel
&amp; David Melnick, participating in a study group focusing on the Old
Testament, and to several others who pursue specific meditative practices, both
through the San Francisco Zen Center community and elsewhere. At one level,
this is like noting that both Nick Piombino and Steve Benson are practicing psychotherapists
&#8211; one could use the fact as a substitute for addressing the question of langpo
&amp; unconsciousness directly, but by itself it doesn&#8217;t tell you very much.
Frederick Feirstein is a practicing psychoanalyst, but that doesn&#8217;t make the
New Formalists any less clueless about the unconscious in their work, craven
&amp; craving though it might be.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial;">A presumption hidden in
Koeneke&#8217;s questioning suggests that langpo, as a collective endeavor, has not
addressed or otherwise visibly engaged the unconscious. That&#8217;s one assertion
I&#8217;m not prepared to grant, even though I wrote that &#8220;<a href="https://www.blogger.com/My%2520Documents/the%2520unconscious%2520in%2520writing%2520has%2520been%2520given%2520short%2520shrift%2520at%2520best%2520by%2520my%2520own%2520generation%2520of%2520poetshttp%3A/ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2003_02_01_ronsilliman_archive.html%2388705368">the
unconscious in writing has been given short shrift at best by my own generation
of poets</a>.&#8221; My very next sentence, after all, read<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;">Most of the effects of a text
such as Clark Coolidge&#8217;s <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">The Maintains </i>or
<i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">Polaroid</i> occur at the subconscious
level or else can be described in the matter-of-fact language of feature
analysis, a close reading of surface devices that never actually gets to what
occurs <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">elsewhere</i> when one reads.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial;">The new sentence, after all,
becomes new precisely by being positioned so that its effects &amp;
implications don&#8217;t resolve up into normative structures of narrative &amp;
exposition. Those effects &amp; implications don&#8217;t dissolve, but rather carry
on in new combinations with &#8220;inappropriately&#8221; juxtaposed materials. If
anything, these effects are far more powerful in these new combinations than
the predictable linking of figurative or depictive gears. My assertion &#8211; or
possibly just my assumption, I probably could have been more articulate in this
regard &#8211; was that the &#8220;failure&#8221; of psychoanalytic discourse in poetry, its
virtual absence as a critical issue during the crucial 1970s &amp; &#8216;80s, gave
poets the freedom to more fully explore this territory without having it <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">déjà toujours</i> mapped out with giant
signposts for Mommy, Daddy, the primal scene &amp; other readymade conceptual
buckets. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial;">An important part of both
the success &amp; problematics of psychoanalytic method in the U.S. in
particular is the way in which Freudian training, by virtue of remaining outside
of the academy, being conducted through a handful of extra-academic institutes,
turned the entire Vienna vocabulary into a free-floating signifier capable of
entering into any academic field. This could never have occurred, for example,
if Freudian training had been concentrated in medical schools. But without a
&#8220;home&#8221; &#8211; by which I mean both a &#8220;turf&#8221; to be protected &amp; a position of
authority from which to contain its application in fields as diverse as comp
lit &amp; paleontology &#8211; Freudian methodology has had a profoundly curious
history across the curricular boundaries. A history of its impact in the
English department, beginning with Norman Holland &amp; Fred Crews in the late
1960s, then proceeding through Jameson, de Man &amp; the Lacanians later, reveals
the vocabulary &amp; tools of psychoanalysis to have been employed not with any
great interest in or concern for poetry, but rather to carve out &amp; then
fortify various &#8220;positions&#8221; within the institution, a political process that is
conducted largely through the appropriation &amp; expropriation of &#8220;the canon.&#8221;
The history of psychoanalytic thought in the English department has yet to get
around to the bulk of the 20<sup>th</sup> century, let alone the 21<sup>st</sup>.
Benign or otherwise, that neglect also formed a freedom for those who might
otherwise have found their work becoming mere proof points in somebody&#8217;s tenure
argument. Thus with a handful of exceptions &#8211; Piombino, Watten, Perelman,
Harryman, Dahlen** &#8211; poets tended mostly not to address the psychoanalytic
framework altogether. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial;">But, as Jack Spicer
demonstrated quite manifestly a generation earlier, not addressing a
professional dialog is hardly the same as not engaging the dynamics of the
terrain that this dialog professes to discuss. Coolidge, Grenier, Armantrout,
Hejinian, Mullen, Andrews, Bernstein, Scalapino, Hunt &amp; others all
manifestly engage aspects of language &amp; experience that exist beyond the
superficially rational. That, more than any specific use of literary devices,
seems to be what joins them as a community of poets. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial;">Tomorrow, I&#8217;ll look at a
specific text.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10.0pt;">* Rae
Armantrout, reading Koeneke&#8217;s letter in the blog yesterday, noted that &#8220;Fanny
Howe's work is explicitly &#8216;apophatic.&#8217; She even uses that word.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10.0pt;">** A really
interesting list of poets, it should be noted. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<h2 class='date-header'><span>Sunday, February 16, 2003</span></h2>

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<tt><span style="font-family: Arial; mso-ansi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;">An email takes the question of <a href="http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/mirrors/ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2003_02_01_ronsilliman_archive.html%2388705368">poetry
and the unconscious</a> further, to poetry (especially langpo) and the
spiritual. <o:p></o:p></span></tt></div>
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<tt><span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt;">Dear Ron,<o:p></o:p></span></tt></div>
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<span class="GramE"><tt><span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt;">Rodney Koeneke here.</span></tt></span><tt><span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt;"> I'm a </span></tt><st1:city><st1:place><tt><span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt;">San Francisco</span></tt></st1:place></st1:city><tt><span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt;"> poet and a steady reader of your
blog, which is one the best uses of public space I can think of since Socrates
hit the agora. It's a generous endeavor and I learn a lot from it.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></div>
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<tt><span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt;">Your recent discussion with <a href="http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/mirrors/ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2003_02_01_ronsilliman_archive.html%2388906610">Rachel
Blau DuPlessis</a> prompted me to write. You both offered compelling reasons to
explain why Language poets tend to steer clear of the unconscious as a subject.
I agree with you, too, that Spicer probably explored this area more acutely
than any writer of his generation. He's also the poet whose interest in the
spiritual affects the way he actually uses language most concretely. In fact,
it's his interest in those areas</span></tt><tt><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;">
- </span></tt><tt><span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt;">the
unconscious and let's <span class="GramE">call</span> it the spiritual - that
marks him off most starkly for me from the following poetic generation, who
often draw inspiration from his more explicitly language-y concerns while
leaving the ghosts and Mars and radios to one side.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></div>
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<tt><span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt;">My question is whether Language writing really CAN address
these subjects, or if that's exactly the point at which it parts company with
the New Americans and the current mainstream. This seems especially urgent to
me with so many younger poets <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">sounding</i>
like Language, displaying a sense of disjunctive cool while holding onto
content that <span class="SpellE">Blyowa</span> can staunchly approve of. In your
view, can Language poetry address areas of human experience like the unconscious
and the spiritual? Or does the theory which explains and extends the practice
of Language writing somehow by its nature <span class="GramE">mitigate</span>
against this kind of subject matter? To borrow Rachel's <span class="GramE">phrase</span>,
can you really be a spiritual girl living in a material world? Or do you have
to let the Language drop to go into the mystic?<o:p></o:p></span></tt></div>
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<tt><span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt;">Part of my interest in the question comes from some of the
parallels I've noticed between experimental poetics and certain branches of
mystical theology. Psychology, especially with Freud but even in Jung,
emphasizes models of depth vs. surface, enlightenment (illuminating the
absent), analysis and expressive creativity that run afoul of a lot of the
basic presuppositions of current experimental writing. The unconscious as it's
constructed by psychology is an absent presence, hovering behind the language,
which can ultimately be seen<i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;"> and </i>shown.
I can see why writers of a poststructural bent rejected this and left the
subject largely to the mainstream.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></div>
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<tt><span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt;">The apophatic tradition in mysticism, however -
approaching the divine by what it's not - shares a lot of (perhaps superficial)
parallels with Language writing. The subject, or ego, comes into question as an
external construct; language is inadequate to apprehend reality; ideas are an
arm of the secular, external social institutions that seek to limit freedom. I
could imagine an apophatic spiritual poetry that looked very much like Language
writing, one that didn't raid the poetics for nifty effects, but took a similar
orientation towards writing out of a shared sense of what's at stake with
words. I wonder if Spicer was one of them.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></div>
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<tt><span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt;">In short, do you think Language writing (broadly speaking)
can address a subject matter that isn't primarily social? Or does the
mainstream alone get to Hoover up subjects like the unconscious and
(gasp...I'll say it) God (or Buddha or the Tao or Allah)? I'd love to hear your
thoughts on the matter.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></div>
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<tt><span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt;">Thanks for your work on the blog. It turns me on to many
things.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></div>
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<tt><span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt;">Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></span></tt></div>
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<tt><span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10.0pt;">Rodney<o:p></o:p></span></tt></div>
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<a href="http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/10742.php">I: The Age of Huts<br /><br /></a>             <a href="http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/10742.php"><img src="https://writing.upenn.edu/epc/mirrors/ronsilliman.blogspot.com/images/lh6.googleusercontent.com/proxy/u_VsYLU9NS_tJXOrl6A4RM1Dne7QkuSslpBc0StgKSXXoIDStYoXqSwDo2tuxST00QD3ynVJH4yjAhcEzTWyM0F_RriCRx9yZdyygceY2wm-%3Ds0-d" /></a><br /><br /><br />II: Tjanting<br /><br /><a href="https://www.saltpublishing.com/products/tjanting-9781876857196"><img src="https://writing.upenn.edu/epc/mirrors/ronsilliman.blogspot.com/images/lh4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/efy1lIcVIKeKSdy_WUDIxV8WLN0OJmA3f7enQ2XDwxwt7Bh5ssfQQAkW_o4oG6FqrB1RGf7CX-Rw-VQ4u36RIuwSsCMxWjjHFDP4c7CbW2d_%3Ds0-d" /></a><br /><br /><br /><a href="http://www.uapress.ua.edu/product/Alphabet,1897.aspx">III: The Alphabet<br /><br /></a><a href="http://www.uapress.ua.edu/product/Alphabet,1897.aspx"><img id="ctl00_MainContent_ProductInfo1_ctl00_PrimaryImage_PrimaryImage" onclick="javascript:window.open(&#39;http://www.uapress.ua.edu//images/temp/212-1897-Product_LargeToMediumImage.jpeg&#39;, 1, &#39;resizable=1, width=500, height=700&#39;)" src="https://writing.upenn.edu/epc/mirrors/ronsilliman.blogspot.com/images/lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/OnaMjXm2h6XxneM04RgHx1Bkf2Wi9UE3a8c3o0NDvW5wXo7BK3MaM5VP9YfbEIpHYxAstTorwhNW4lhhkNuua5bDX7Ogr2UgZ1NMDDjeh-0bNnuo-WH-9pGHIR6lv-4-_UDHVNe36xB6%3Ds0-d" style="border: 1px solid Gray;" /></a><br /><div><br /></div><div>IV. from Universe</div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div>
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<h2 class='title'>Other Books in Print</h2>
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<span style="font-weight: bold;">MEMOIRS &amp; COLLABORATIONS</span><br /><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Leningrad-American-Writers-Soviet-Union/dp/1562790056">Leningrad</a><br /><a href="http://www.thegrandpiano.org/">The Grand Piano</a><br /><a href="https://www.saltpublishing.com/products/under-albany-9781844710515">Under Albany</a><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold;">CRITICISM</span><br /><a href="http://www.spdbooks.org/Producte/0937804207/the-new-sentence.aspx">The New Sentence</a><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold;">ANTHOLOGY</span><br /><a href="https://secure.touchnet.com/C22921_ustores/web/classic/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCTID=327&SINGLESTORE=true">In The American Tree</a><br /><br /><br /><br />
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<br /><img alt="" src="file%3A///Users/Lynn/Desktop/silliman2a.jpg" / /><img alt="" src="file%3A///Users/Lynn/Library/Caches/TemporaryItems/moz-screenshot.png" / /><span style="color: #990000; font-weight: bold;">RON SILLIMAN</span> has written and edited 40 books, and had his poetry and criticism translated into 16 languages. Silliman was a 2012 Kelly Writers House Fellow, the 2010 recipient of the Levinson Prize from the Poetry Foundation, a 2003 Literary Fellow of the National Endowment for the Arts, a 2002 Fellow of the Pennsylvania Arts Council, and a 1998 Pew Fellow in the Arts. Silliman has a plaque in the walk dedicated to poetry in his home town of Berkeley and a sculpture in the Transit Center of Bury, Lancaster, a part of the Irwell Sculpture Trail. He lives in Chester County, Pennsylvania and teaches at the University of Pennsylvania.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />(c) 2002-2019 by Ron Silliman.
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